A lamb leg is classic. A 3-hour shoulder is excellent. But for the most succulent roast lamb of your life, slow-roast it for 12 hours in the oven overnight. Cooked at a very low temperature with plenty of braising liquid, you can set-and-forget without a worry. This entirely hands-off, easy cooking method yields superior results with the bonus that it reheats 100% perfectly and you can cook up to 4 shoulders at once.
This is a reader-favourite recipe included by popular demand in my debut cookbook “Dinner”!
What’s so amazing about a 12 hour lamb, anyway?
There are many devoted fans of this super 3-Hour Slow Roasted Lamb Shoulder, stuffed with garlic and rosemary. And there will always be a place in my life for a 3-hour lamb, something speedy you can pop in the oven on a lazy Sunday afternoon for supper that night.
So why should you give the 12-hour lamb a go? Because it’s even better. 🤷🏻♀️ See, it’s a bit like flying. Think of 3-hour lamb like business class. It’s pretty awesome and nobody on the receiving end is going to complain. But 12-hour lamb is the next rung, the top shelf – it’s first class. And once you’ve flown first class, it’s hard to look at anything else the same way again!
Here’s what makes 12-hour lamb that much more special:
Lower temp = more succulent meat – Tough cuts like lamb shoulder need slow-cooking to tenderise them. The lower the roasting temperature, the less total moisture evaporation and thus juicier meat. 3-hour lamb is cooked at 180°C/350°F, while the 12 hour lamb is cooked at only 100°C/212°F.
Better flavour – Not only is the flesh juicier but the slow braising-roasting method here means you get the best of both worlds: flavour infused into the flesh from the surface rub and lamb juices which mingles with the braising liquid, and surface browning you can only get with roasting.
Hands-off overnight cooking – Covered, with plenty of braising liquid to keep it moist, our first class lamb cooks overnight on autopilot. No basting, no removing covering to brown, no tray rotations – it completely takes care of itself. Wake up the next day and be greeted with roasted meat perfection!
Easy to scale up – Make 2 at the same time in one pan, or 4 across 2 pans!
Reheats 100% perfectly – Unlike many other roasts, this 12-hour slow-roasted lamb shoulder reheats 100% perfectly, which makes it an excellent make-ahead centrepiece for large gatherings.
It creates its own jus (fancy word but it’s dead easy) – It’s just the braising liquid, simmered to concentrate and thickened slightly with cornflour/cornstarch. After 12-hours with the lamb, this is flavour-packed liquid gold!
A ludicrous effort-to-reward ratio – I am a VERY big fan of recipes where you reap high rewards for a small outlay of effort!
What you need to make 12-hour slow-roasted lamb shoulder
I’ve gone for classic flavours here that lamb loves – rosemary and garlic. Simple is all we need when we’re doing slow-roasting! (Note: Dried oregano missing from photo, oops!)
Lamb shoulder – The more economical yet superior brother to lamb leg (in my humble opinion). It’s richer, it’s got more flavour, it’s juicer, and it’s far more forgiving to cook than lamb leg. Leg either needs to be roasted to blushing pink perfection or slow-roasted to fall-apart tenderness (but because it’s leaner there’s less margin for error with the cook time).
Shoulders are widely available these days in Australia, even at large grocery stores (Coles, Woolies etc). They are typically around 1.3 – 1.6kg (young lambs with more tender flesh) but sometimes you will find them as large as 2kg+ which are still terrific, but the flesh is a wee bit less tender (because they are older animals).
Garlic, oregano (missing from photo, oops!) and rosemary – Timeless companions to lamb!
Onion – To keep the lamb slightly elevated off the base (instead of using a rack) and also to flavour the sauce (lamb jus) which we make using the braising liquid.
Olive oil – For rubbing the lamb so the salt, pepper, garlic and rosemary stick.
Water – Plenty here, and there’s a few reasons for this. Firstly, for moisture retention in the flesh during the slow-roasting period. Secondly, it promotes more even cooking of the flesh because partially braising in a liquid distributes heat more effectively than the convective heat of oven air (ie. just dry roasting). Thirdly, to prevent the pan drying out which would result in the pan base residues burning. And lastly, the water becomes heavily flavoured with lamb juices, which we then reduce to make the sauce. There’s absolutely no need to use stock!
How to make 12-hour lamb shoulder
Hint: There’s a lot of sleeping on the job involved. We need more recipes like this!! 😂
Marinade / rub – Mix the rosemary, garlic, salt and pepper with the olive oil.
Slather then optional marinade – Slather the rub all over the lamb shoulder, being sure to get right into all those cracks and crevices! I just do this straight in the roasting pan – why bother dirtying a cutting board??
Then if time permits, leave the lamb to marinate for 2 hours on the counter in the roasting pan, or up to 24 hours in the fridge.
Marinating is an optional step. Why? Because the long and slow cook time means the lamb is essentially marinating as it cooks, in my opinion. But I’m sure people with a more refined palate than me can probably taste the difference between marinating, and not. I can’t. So I usually skip the marinating time.
Water – Pop the onion wedges under the lamb (I promise they are hidden under the lamb shown above!) then pour the water into the pan.
Brown 45 minutes – Pop the lamb in the oven for 45 minutes, uncovered. This is to give the browning a head start. It will brown further when covered in foil, but this just ensures our finished produce is really nicely browned. It’s easier and better to do this first than at the end when it’s already cooked.
12 hours in oven – Cover lamb with baking paper then two layers of foil, sealed tightly (or better yet, a heavy roasting pan lid) to prevent evaporating moisture leakage. We want all of it to stay locked in! Then place in the oven for 12 hours at 100°C/212°F. Now go to bed and sleep well, relaxed by the knowledge that your lamb will turn out beautifully tomorrow.
Fall-apart meat and LOTS of liquid! When the lamb emerges from the oven in the morning, the flesh should pry apart with very little effort (check the side, not top, to preserve presentation). The pan will have even MORE liquid than it started with because of all the lamb juices. See? No risk of a dry pan burning!
For serving / holding / reheating advice and guidelines on how I would time things to make it effortless for serving at gatherings, see the section just before the recipe video. For now, let me show you how to make the sauce – Lamb Jus!
Lamb Jus: Fancy-sounding but super-easy gravy
The sauce for this slow-roast lamb is an intensely-flavoured wonder, packed with the tasty and meaty goodness you can only get from 12 hours of slow cooking! Technically this is a kind of jus as opposed to a gravy, because it’s made from a reduction of meat juices rather than pan scrapings.
The nice thing about it is that it’s much less fussy to make than gravy. No wrangling a roasting pan on the stove to make a roux with the fat in the pan here. Instead, we simply simmer the pan juices to concentrate, then thicken slightly with cornflour / cornstarch so it coats the meat nicely when doused.
How to make Lamb Jus
Reduce pan juices – Remove the lamb to a platter, another roasting pan or a large container. Then strain all the pan juices into a saucepan. Simmer rapidly to reduce to 1 cup.
Thicken with cornflour – Make a cornflour slurry by mixing 1 teaspoon of cornflour with 1/4 cup of water. Pour that straight into the saucepan while stirring. At first it will make the liquid murky, but as it comes up to the boil it will become shiny and clear, and will thicken slightly.
We do not want the jus to be too thick – not like our usual gravy that we serve with roasts. A jus is supposed to be thinner. This is because it looks and pours more elegantly than a more viscous gravy. Also because it typically has more intense savoury flavour than gravy, you use less. So we want the sauce to run more readily so it coats the meat more thinly than gravy (in, say, the 3-hour lamb shoulder).
Once the jus is ready, pour into a jug and serve alongside the lamb. It can be made days in advance, stored in a container and reheated simply in the microwave or on the stove.
A go-to main for gatherings
As I mentioned right at the beginning, some of the reasons this has become my go-to centrepiece for a a group menu is because:
It’s easy to scale up (up to 4 shoulders in one oven)
It’s pretty much entirely hands-off
It can be made ahead the night before, and reheats 100% perfectly
So I thought it might be helpful to also share with you my typical roast-cooking game plans including timings, which I follow depending on when and how I plan to serve the roast.
Serving your roast: Planning & timings
If serving at a lunch … Roast the shoulder(s) overnight. I usually put it in at 8pm for browning, 9 pm for the 12 hour slow roast, then pull it out at 9am in the morning. The lamb has so much heat in it, it’s fine to stay out on the counter until lunch is served at 1pm or so. If it needs a touch of reheating, just give it a quick blast in the microwave (yep, seriously…) or cover with foil and pop it in a 150°C/300°F oven.
This also leaves room for further oven time if needed, if the lamb flesh was not quite fall-apart.
If serving at a dinner … Roast lamb shoulder(s) overnight. Time it to suit your sleep schedule!
After it comes out of the oven the next day, fully cool to room temperature. Make the jus. Then cover and refrigerate all. Take lamb out of fridge 3 hours prior to serving (yes, it takes hours to come to room temperature, so that reheating is easier and more even). Reheat 1 hour, covered, in oven.
For early birds! … Rise early and get the lamb in the oven by 6 am (!!) so it’s out of the oven by 7 pm ready for dinner. (45 minutes roasting uncovered + 12 hour slow roast time). Warning: For the sure hand only! This is a tight schedule. I really do find it’s just easier to cook the night before!!!
How to keep it warm during service … If you are planning to serve the lamb buffet-style where people take time to serve themselves, it’s best to serve the lamb inside a slow cooker on warm mode. I place a whole lamb shoulder in there, putting out one at a time (the others stays warm, covered in the oven) and people use tongs to pull the meat off. Easy, no carving, and help-yourself serving!
Here’s a couple of gatherings from this year that starred this 12 hour slow roasted lamb! Firstly, my belated New Years’ Eve 2021 party that took place in March:
And more recently on a trip to Tasmania when I took over the kitchen of Meadowbank Vineyard to put on a big lunch for Tassie friends! Four lamb shoulders were slow-cooked overnight in one oven in the Air BNB I was staying at, then were transported to the vineyard in the morning for the lunch. More on this trip in the Postcards from Tasmania section in this newsletter from when I took the trip.
What to serve with 12 hour roast lamb
A grand main deserves worthy sides!!
It’s pictured above with Greek Lemon Potatoes, which are a perfect match for this Mediterranean-style lamb. Also peeking out of the bottom corner is a big, juicy Greek Salad which is a lovely fresh side to cut through the richness of the lamb.
A big pan of Herb & Garlic Roasted Vegetables would also be ideal and can be made after the lamb comes out of the oven since the lamb will stay warm for hours upon hours.
For a luxe option, add a side of Duck Fat Potatoes, the crunchiest roast potatoes you will ever have in your life. And for greens, a big bowl of the Garlic Sautéed Green Beans from Wednesday would be ideal!
So! What do you think? Have I convinced you to give this a go? I don’t crown this the ULTIMATE Roast Lamb lightly! I truly do believe this to be the best way to roast a lamb, for the most superior results. And I’ve shared a fair few of roast lamb recipes in my time, just look below!
More of my Roast lamb recipes
– Nagi x
Watch how to make it
This recipe features in my debut cookbook Dinner. The book is mostly new recipes, but this is a reader favourite included by popular demand!
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Ultimate slow-roasted lamb: 12-hour Lamb Shoulder
Ingredients
- 1.6 – 2.2kg / 3.2 – 4.4lb lamb shoulder , bone-in (Note 1)
- 2 cups water (Note 2)
- 1 brown onion (unpeeled), cut into 6 wedges (Note 3)
Marinade
- 2 1/2 tsp fresh rosemary , chopped (finely)
- 1 tbsp dried oregano
- 2 garlic cloves (big!) , finely chopped
- 1 tsp salt , kosher or cooking salt (or 3/4 tsp table salt)
- 1/2 tsp black pepper
- 1/4 cup extra virgin olive oil
Jus, for serving
- 1 tsp cornflour / cornstarch
- 1/4 cup water
- 1/4 tsp salt
Instructions
- Preheat oven to 230°C / 450°F (210°C fan).
- Marinade/rub: Mix the Marinade ingredients in a small bowl. Rub all over the lamb surface, getting it right into all the cracks and crevices!
- Marinate 2 – 24 hrs: If time permits, marinate for 2 hours on the counter in a roasting pan, or up to 24 hours in the fridge. I skip this step more often than not, however. (Note 4)
- Prepare roasting pan: Scatter onion in the base of the roasting pan. Place lamb shoulder on top . Pour water into pan.
- Roast uncovered for 45 minutes.
- Slow-roast 12 hours: Turn oven down to 100°C/210°F (both fan and standard, Note 5). Cover lamb with baking paper, then a double layer of foil and seal very tightly to avoid water evaporation. Roast for 12 hours (I always do overnight!).
- Check meat – Test side of lamb with two forks. The meat should be fall-apart tender. If not, cover and return to oven.
- Remove lamb: There will (should!) be a lot of liquid pooled under the lamb in the roasting pan. Remove lamb to a large dish. Cover loosely with foil to keep warm. It will stay warm for 2 to 3 hours. See Note for reheating / making ahead.
Lamb Jus:
- Reduce liquid: Strain all the liquid in the roasting pan into a saucepan (Note 2). Bring to a boil then simmer rapidly on medium-high until it reduces down to 1 cup (250ml).
- Thicken: Mix cornflour with water. Pour into jus in a thin stream while stirring continuously. Continue to cook for a minute or two over medium heat, stirring every now and then, until it thickens to a syrup consistency. Add salt and pepper to taste.
Serve:
- Serve Slow Roasted Lamb with Jus. Use tongs for tearing meat off – no knife for carving needed! Pictured in post with Greek Lemon Roasted Potatoes, a perfect match for this Greek-ish flavoured lamb. Roasted Vegetables would also be ideal.
Recipe Notes:
1. Lamb shoulder – A tough cut of meat that needs to be cooked far beyond well done until the meat becomes fall-apart tender. You do not need a knife to carve this meat, pull it off with tongs! Shoulder comes in all sorts of sizes depending on the size/age of lamb! The cook time doesn’t really differ because the meat itself needs a minimum amount of time to break down and become tender, and also the low temperature means it’s very forgiving, ie. it’s hard to overcook this meat to the point it dries out. If your shoulder is really small though, say 1.2kg / 2.4lb, then you can probably cut down the cook time by 2 hours, but it should still be succulent even if you stick with the full 12 hours. Lamb leg – This recipe is not suitable for leg, please use this Slow Roasted Lamb Leg recipe instead. 2. Water is all we need for the braising liquid because it gets so much flavour from the lamb juices, no need to use stock. Liquid in pan after slow roasting – If the foil was tightly sealed (and your lamb is juicy!), you will/should end up with 3 – 4 cups liquid at the end. If you have less than 1 cup, add water to top up before simmer on stove to make the Jus. 3. Onion – Elevates the lamb slightly off base for more even cooking, plus adds flavour to the liquid that forms the Jus (sauce). Can keep skin on because it holds together better and we strain it out anyway. 4. Marinating – The long and slow cook time means the lamb is essentially marinating as it cooks, in my opinion. But I’m sure people with a more refined palate than me can probably taste the difference between marinating, and not. (I can’t). 5. Oven temp – I find that you need to use the same temperature for standard vs fan oven for low temperature, slow cooking. It’s something I’ve discovered over the years across various recipes, including things slow cooked at slightly higher temperatures like Massaman Lamb Shanks. I think it’s because the lower the oven temperature, the smaller the difference in actual oven heat between fan vs standard ovens. 6. Workflow / timing / reheating: Here’s what I do –
- Serving for lunch – Slow roast overnight so it comes out of there oven around 9 am (to give a bit of headroom for extra oven time if needed, in case meat is not fall-apart-tender). Lamb will stay warm covered in foil for 3 hours easily, in a new pan or container (don’t leave in liquid, as it will continue cooking). If needed, reheat per below.
- Dinner – Slow roast overnight, allow lamb to cool to room temperature, then store in fridge. Take out 3 hours prior to serving (to de-chill for more even, faster reheating). Reheat covered in oven at 150°C/300°F for 1 hour (for 1 lamb shoulder; 4 will take longer). Emergency reheating option: Microwave it. Yes, really!
- Jus – Make, cool to room temperature, then refrigerate until required. Reheat in microwave or saucepan on stove.
Nutrition Information:
Life of Dozer
Dozer on the job: taste-testing a prospective recipe for the cookbook!
He approved. (He is very consistent with his rating, I find.)
Can’t wait to try your 12 hour lamb roast!! Could you braze it first, then put it in a slow roast pot ( crockpot)?
Cheers from Toronto
Try my crockpot method here: https://salesdock.info/slow-roasted-rosemary-garlic-lamb-shoulder/%3C/a%3E N x
Ok, so we had this for dinner last night, and can I just say…This is the most delicious lamb I’ve ever had! The jus was amazing, and hubby hasn’t stopped raving about it. He did say, surely you could cook it for, say, 8 hours, not 12. I said, NO! It’s 12 hour lamb, and if this is how Nagi says to cook it that’s what’s going to happen.
After all, the proof was on the dinner plate! Another winner, thanks Nagi. Xx 🤣
I love someone who follows the recipes!!! N x
😝😂
Thankyou so much for sharing your recipes, I love them. I’m really enjoying cooking using your recipes… 💝
Thank you! N x
Your recipe Nagi, and all the comments from my fellow fans, are making me salivate.
We are having a lamb shortage or something…when it’s available (meaning any cuts of lamb) at the market, even ground lamb is going for USD $10/ lb. forgot about a shoulder a leg or any other cut. I shall have to be content to just drool along with Dozer.
I have heard that lamb can be pricey in the USA…in Australia it is very good value. You might have to wait for a sale! 😀 N x
By now the shoulder is out of the oven after 13 hours total. Just as you “promised”, Nagi. I reduced the gravy to the point it needed no artificial thickening. The trick: I blended the remaining reduced liquid with the cooked onions ! Great taste and no starch needed… accompanied with plain boiled green beans a veggie soup and for carbs… couscous ! Works wonderfully together.
Sounds delicious!! N x
As a side note, I didn’t reduce the strained tray juices straight away and put the saucepan in fridge before pulling out this evening to reduce as per recipe, and had a good cm of solid fat on top! I took most off, but cracked off a ‘wedge’ to include, because as we all know fat equals flavour. This just seemed like an awful lot of fat! The jus without the fat and reducing tastes awesome already, so can only imagine final result. K x
I often do that extra step in recipes as its an easy way to reduce the fat! (but you were right to leave some in for flavour!) N x
I did the same but made the jus then put into the fridge. Removed a good centimetre and a bit of fat. Glad I did that.
Yes Kylie, that’s the way to go! Next time for sure I’ll do this – use the fat flavour to reduce the jus THEN refrigerate and remove fat.
Thanks. Xx
Nagi ! OMG this is amazing..I put this on as I went to bed around midnight for lunch today. It literally is the most amazing lamb I have ever had.
1.7kg shoulder, and rather than cooking in a tray I cooked in my chasseur pot. Gave it a quick blast up high at the end to brown the crust a little more. This was fall apart tender and soooo juicy.
I am a huge fan of the 3 hour shoulder recipe and cook it often but ai can see this being the go to shoulder recipe from now on !
Thank you so much!
It is the ULTIMATE lamb in my book too! N x
Amazing! We have just finished eating. Tender lamb, full of flavour, jus was easy to make and tasted great. Wasn’t much left as everyone went back for seconds and thirds. I used a 2.2kg shoulder purchased from Woolworths and I used a red onion as I didn’t have a brown onion. Highly recommended it. Everyone said it was the best lamb they had tasted.
That’s great! Thank you! N x
Well as soon as I read this recipe I was down to the butcher to get my lamb shoulder. Prepped it as per instructions (added a bit more garlic), prayed this was going to be amazing because of how much I just payed – 2.5kg was the smallest I could get.
Woke this morning to an aroma that had me salivating! Removed from oven…prayed again hahaha….and OMG it literally fell off the bone 🍖! The flavour is amazing and the garlic was not over powering at all!
This will definitely be on my Xmas menu…now onto making the jus.
Thank you so much Nagi you are a real inspiration!
Hi Kylie! Sounds like you’re was a success! M I’ve just bought a 2.5kg lamb shoulder to cook – just wondering if you scaled up the water or any of the herbs? Thank you!
I kept exactly to the recipe and it was amazing! No need to add extra water. As long as the alfoil is tight around the dish to prevent it from evaporating. I add an extra clove or two for the marinade (because i love garlic).
I’ve literally just finished marinating mine this morning, allowing all day to marinade then into the oven before I go to bed tonight.
You’re welcome! N x
I just pulled the lamb shoulder out of the oven after it’s 12 hours overnight, and can I just say, it is fall apart juicy and succulent and absolutely delicious! Yum Nagi! Plenty of juices to make the jus. We’re looking forward to Dinner tonight! Thanks 😊
Well done! N x
A year or two ago, you asked for questions from readers. We have a special needs daughter, Heather, who asks everyone she meets – do you have a dog? What is your dogs name? How old is it? You quickly answered that Dozer was six (we knew the answers to the other questions). She loves looking at his pictures, and although she doesn’t read, i’m trying to get her to recognize your site by the front page logo. Today as I was looking at your newest recipe, I asked, do you know what this says (recipe tin eats). She said oh yes – recipes Dozer eats! I thought this might bring a smile to your face. Love all that you do!
Oh my…how sweet! And yes, I think that name might be a bit more appropriate…Dozer eats almost everything! N x
Born and raised on a family farm and butcher shop . I’ve a few pro’s and con’s with this lamb cooking article, best tasting and flavor full piece of meat comes from any animal at about two years old , at that age it has the perfect amount of fat on it and a nicer cut . I do like the cooking method in this article but eliminate the garlic, it destroys the real flavor of the meat , quality meat only needs a bit of salt and pepper
Hi Jim..feel free to leave out the garlic if you find it overpowering…I like the garlic and herb flavour…you are right to start with the best meat! N x
Thank you, dear Nagi, for your recipes and companion explanations and comments ! Really precious.
About this recipe that I plan testing this weekend: isn’t 45 minutes at 240°c way too much? Here, in France, we would consider the shoulder almost done…(remember it’s a mere 3 inch thick at most). I saw these values written 3 times in the recipe so I know it’s not a typing mistake…
Hi Eitan! Great question 🙂 The shoulder is cooked way beyond well done to the “fall apart” stage. The 45 minutes at 240C is to kick start the skin browning, and yes it starts cooking the meat but you needn’t worry about how much the meat is cooked at this stage. This is because for this particular cut of meat, we need to take it far beyond well done, until the meat breaks down and becomes juicy and tender to eat. Basically, the cooking stages for meats go from raw (tartare!) to medium rare (Côte de bœuf!) to well done (nothing is good served well done, it’s dry! 😂) to tender/fall apart such as this lamb shoulder which is cooked for a long time at a low temperature. Hope that helps! N x
As usual, excellent and full reply. Thank you. “we need to take it far beyond well done” is the key sentence, for me.
The shoulder is out of the oven after 13 hours total. Just as you “promised”, Nagi. I reduced the gravy to the point it needed no artificial thickening. The trick: I blended the remaining reduced liquid with the cooked onions ! Great taste and no starch needed… accompanied with plain boiled green beans a veggie soup and for carbs… couscous ! Works wonderfully together.
It sounds great!
😁 N x
Hi Nagi, This looks and sounds device. I was wondering if this could be cooked in a slow cooker on low and if so would it still be cooked for 12 hours?
Hi Leoda…yes it can be made in a slow cooker but it will depend on the size of your shoulder. Reduce the water to 1 cup and slow cook 10 hours on low until pull apart tender then finish in the oven to brown it. The video in this recipe shows how to do those steps https://salesdock.info/slow-cooker-roast-lamb-leg/#jump-watch%3C/a%3E. Enjoy! N x
Looking to make this soon. What is baking paper? Parchment paper? Also, why is the onion left “unpeeled?”
Thank you!
>> why is the onion left “unpeeled?”
I presume it is in order to add colour to the jus. Not taste.
Hi Eitan! It just holds the onion together a bit better so it keeps the lamb slightly elevated off the base of the pan. Onion goes floppy quite quickly! Also, because it is strained out, there is no need to peel it. 🙂 N x
Thank you again, Nagi.
I love this recipe this is how I always do it with the difference that i’ve never cooked it for more than 4 hrs but i will try thank you xoxo
Oh, I wish this had been posted this time last week and we would have been having it for our Canadian Thanksgiving🇨🇦🇨🇦 Instead of organic chicken and a small ham. I’m so over turkey. Christmas is on the horizon and it might just be this recipe’s time. I really appreciate the time you take on your instructions. It must takes ages, and here I moan about cooking for a family. Your passion shows in every post👌
This is almost exactly how I slow roast my lamb. I am an Armenian/American and we eat a lot of lamb! I do use more garlic and peel the onion. I have also made this using leg of lamb, but it isn’t as juicy. Almost any slow braised meat results in amazing “gravy” and this is no exception. Simply the best!
Hi Nagi, can the lamb shoulder be slow cooked in the slow cooker and for how long please.